Update on Gen Z’s Workplace Values

TRANSCRIPT

Horizons podcast - Season 3, Episode 4 Zoë Jenkins

 

Jaylen Smith

The challenges for me was when I ran my campaign, I had people tell me that I was too young, didn't know anything, and just graduated high school. Of course. But I didn't allow what people told me negatively to define who I was trying to become at the age of 18.

 

Tameshia Bridges Mansfield

That was Mayor Jaylen Smith, who, at the age of 18, became one of the youngest mayors in United States history. Welcome to the Horizons podcast, where we take conversations from the stage at JFF's annual Horizons summit, and move them forward. 

Today we're talking to Generation Z about the professional pathways they're carving out for their own success, the wellness of their communities, and the survival of the planet. This generation has been identified by some uncomplimentary labels entitled, woke, unwilling to work. It seems that for each modern generation entering the workforce, it's a rite of passage to live up or down to the expectations of those paving the way. In this episode, we're moving past the name-calling and listening to the dreams and determination of this uniquely positioned group of young people born between 1997 and 2012. So today we welcome a guest interviewer, who is also a member of Gen Z. But first, let's go back to the stage at Horizons, where Jaylen Smith, mayor of Earl Arkansas is in conversation with another Gen Z trailblazer, Kristy Drutman, founder of Brown Girl Green and co-founder of Green Jobs Board. Jaylen and Kristy are interviewed by Megan Leonhardt, senior economics writer with Barron's. 

 

Megan Leonhardt

Something that we hear a lot about Gen Z is how value driven they are. Kristy, you actually work in a very value-driven organization, two organizations. And I'm kind of curious, how does Gen Z's approach to topics like climate change and social issues differ from previous generations and how does that affect the strategy that we need to maybe embrace in order to make sure that these folks are successful? 

 

Kristy Drutman

Yeah, I would say that the big word or conversation has been about greenwashing, right? There's a lot of companies and organizations that may claim sustainability but aren't actually walking the walk. We need to really invest in Gen Z leadership because we are very well aware of the issues. We know how these industries need to pivot, and I think that's the gap. It's like we care so much, we're so passionate, but we just don't have the funding or the infrastructure to know what we do with that passion. And so I think that's where intergenerational dialogue comes into play. Take our expertise seriously. Pay us for our worth, and think about the ways that you're going to keep us in your organizations. Not push us out. 

 

Megan Leonhardt

Nicely said. Mayor Smith, in that same vein, so thinking about that, how would you recommend that leaders, managers, colleagues think about this multidimensional, multi generational workforce that we are sort of seeing these days? Obviously, we've always had multiple generations in the workforce, but Kristy did point out that there are differences that maybe make this generation potentially more unique. 

 

Jaylen Smith

I agree Kristy 100%. When it comes down to this generation and we're talking about leadership, a lot of people, pretty much where I'm from, are afraid to give them the opportunity to make a difference in those spaces. Where I became mayor, I was always told no, but I didn't let no deter me because I knew somebody was always waiting to tell me yes. And I always pursued the yes regardless of what the no was because that was just a barrier that I could overcome. And when we talk about developing policies, we're talking about ideas. It's good to bring young people to the table because they can give you their point of view. And Kristy was saying about honesty. Yes, we're very honest because I know I am 100%. 

 

Tameshia Bridges Mansfield

Honesty, expertise, perspective, Gen Z is challenging employers to shift the status quo and value their work as much as their colleagues who are generations ahead. To dig deeper into what this generation is bringing to the workplace, I'm passing the microphone to some dynamic young people to move this conversation forward. Alex Edgar, a youth civic engagement expert is in conversation with diversity, equity, and inclusion, thought leader, Zoe Jenkins. Alex, welcome. The studio is all yours.

 

Alex Edgar

Thank you so much to Tameshia for that introduction and for sharing this space with us. I am so excited to be here with Zoe Jenkins, fellow Gen Z leader, who at the age of 20 has already spent years advocating for a reimagining of educational and workplace systems through empathy. Zoe is joining us from the University of Virginia where she's a third-year student. Welcome to the podcast, Zoe.

 

Zoë Jenkins

Hey Alex, and thank you so much for having me. 

 

Alex Edgar

Well, I'm so glad that you are here with us. And I'd love it if you could first tell us how you got started doing this important work and then share what's the most recent project you've been working on that you're really excited about.

 

Zoë Jenkins

Yeah. I guess to be totally honest about where this all started, it's probably like fourth grade, emceeing a conference for my elementary school. But the real start was just getting more involved with the Kentucky Student Voice team when I was in middle school and finally finding the words to describe what was going on in my school, and then feeling inspired to try to help other students find that language to talk about what's going on in my school, who I should be talking to, but also the importance of students leading that work. 

I think the most exciting thing that's going on is actually not really education directly work related, but actually something I'm doing on grounds at UVA. I'm in this literary and debating society, and we've been navigating the balance between free speech and inclusion. This has just been a fun way to apply some of the stuff from doing empathy DEI work and education into a debating space, which normally we don't. We don't treat those things as being in the same spheres. 

 

Alex Edgar

It's so interesting learning new things about your friends, and that's a really incredible spark, Zoe, because everyone has the ability to recognize these problems, but we often lack the ability to act on them and really know how to take that step forward. It's really cool to see that your start was really in recognizing that and sharing that with your peers. But as we're talking about how Gen Z can make an impact just as you've been doing, I want to draw us back to the clip we were just listening to of two other Gen Z leaders explaining why employers should value what they have to contribute and shift the balance of power in the workplace to give Gen Z a say. So. I wanted to ask you, how do we first get into a position where we can have an honest and productive dialogue about empowering Gen Z in the workplace? 

 

Zoë Jenkins

Yeah, I think the important first step is we need to value what young people inherently bring to the table instead of seeing a lot of their asks as being immature. I feel like a lot of the times when I have conversations with adults, they're like, "Oh, young people just don't understand what it's like to work in the office. They should appreciate the way we've always done things." And while I think there's certainly some truth to that, in order to get into that space of productive dialogue, we need to recognize that young people are young, we have a lack of experiences, but also there's something different we've experienced and that there's something to learn from that and that that's equally valuable to maybe the way we've always thought about how people should be working together. 

 

Alex Edgar

I really love the idea of young people are young, but we also bring something different to the table. I think with a lot of your work in the empathy space, and I know about you, your mantra really is leading with empathy for all people, and that really started in your time in middle and high school as an activist. And I'd love if you could share just a bit more about how you arrived to empathy of all things as that kind of game changer. 

 

Zoë Jenkins

Yeah, I like that empathy kind of came to me instead of me coming to empathy. I grew up in Lexington, Kentucky, which was relatively diverse, but certainly more diverse than the rest of the state. And so being a Black woman in Kentucky going into these last diverse parts of the state and doing this education work, I learned very quickly that maybe some of the niceties I've been taught of like, "Oh, this is how we talk about these issues, or this is what these problems look like," just look different other parts of the country. And it's not that these people are somehow less intelligent or less capable of analyzing what's going on. It's just different than what my experience was. 

And so I think I learned very quickly that you can't put people in boxes or assume there's nothing in common. And that for a lot of students, there are some shared experiences and feelings that students have when they don't feel empowered, when they feel like their teachers or other students don't care about them. And even if that maybe looks a little differently for them, there's still a way that we can connect even though our school experiences and lived experiences are so different. The best way to reach them is just to listen to them and try and figure out, "Okay, here are the things that we have in common, and here's what you have in common with these other students. Let's try to find a path forward here." And at the end of the day, that really comes down just to empathy rather than trying to prescribe a certain way. 

 

Alex Edgar

What you said about empathy being a learned feeling, a learned emotion, I think is really, really important, especially as we start looking at taking it from the education system into workplace system. So I was wondering, what do you think about that process, about that shift from bringing empathy really into the workplace as Gen Z enters the workplace? 

 

Zoë Jenkins

Just honestly, just where the world is right now, it's so important to just be checking in with people and trying to understand where they're coming from. And we spend so much time at work. I think I was reading this book, and we spend 90,000 hours of our lives at work, which is really scary. 

 

Alex Edgar

Wow. 

 

Zoë Jenkins

I don't think I would want to work with people who don't understand me as a person, and I think other people probably feel the same way. And so I think just reprioritizing this as something that needs to be learned and practiced to make sure that people feel like, "I'm spending all this time with these people. Work is really important to me, but also the people that I'm working with care about me." I think it's really important just making sure that we are safe, fulfilled and happy with how big of a part of our lives work is. 

 

Alex Edgar

And taking beyond just empathy, what are other things that you feel are needed from the Gen Z perspective for successful career navigation? 

 

Zoë Jenkins

Something that's lacking is kind of more like purpose-driven education. I think the challenge that we're running into is that you go through 13 years where they're K-12, they're trying to push you into certain career fields that are very conventional. And even in the last couple of years, I think it's become abundantly clear that there are some of these jobs that just don't exist anymore, don't work the same way, and then there are all these new jobs that we were kind of never trained how to do. And so I feel like myself and a lot of my peers just get really stressed out about that of like, "Oh, I've been prepping my whole life to be a doctor or to be pre-law, and now I'm not even sure if that's a field that looks the same as when I wanted to go into it." I think that can feel very limiting. 

And I think it comes down to how we teach kids to find their purpose. Instead of trying to fit kids into jobs, trying to help students through more of a purpose-driven education of like, how do you find your why and what you're really good at so that no matter what job opportunities come your way, you can find something that's going to be fulfilling, check all the boxes for you. There's a sea of stuff to navigate right now. And so just helping kids have a compass I think is really important so they know the direction they're going into and they're not so much looking for the right steps that they have to follow. 

 

Alex Edgar

I really wish someone could give me a compass right now because as you mentioned, I'm a student at UC Berkeley getting ready to graduate soon, and I know you also have another year until you'll graduate at University of Virginia. But we also want to note that we're not just here to be talking about college graduates taking the four-year route. We also want to expand into other forms of learning and work. So I was wondering, Zoe, how do you think Gen Z can really change the complexion of companies from a credential standpoint? And what is the value of bringing in workers who do not have college degrees, but have the tangible skills that employers say are so sorely needed? 

 

Zoë Jenkins

Yeah, I feel like this question hits home a little bit. So I don't know if I've ever told you this, Alex, but I actually don't have my high school diploma. And this is a very kind of unique opportunity and a weird confluence of events. I was in this math and science school that I didn't really love. I was experiencing a lot of racial discrimination at the school and then Covid hit. It was kind of the perfect chance to be like, "If this is a time that I could do something a little different, the pandemic is going to allow me to do that." And so instead of finishing out the rest of my school year, I took some online classes. I worked and did the work that I really loved. 

When I was applying to colleges, really it hit me that this shouldn't matter that I don't have a diploma because I have taken the classes, I know what I need to know, I've done the work, and that makes me perfectly ready for college. And I think that's a lot of how I think about what it means to require credentials and how we think about credentialing when it goes into the workforce. We want people to show what they know and what they can do. And that's going to look really differently for everybody, but I hope that as we think about what accessibility looks like in the workforce and making sure that we're getting the talent that we want to get, that we have a more expansive definition of what it looks like to show that you're ready and show that you are the right candidate for different kinds of jobs and careers. 

I think it just really puts the impetus on employers to be looking for where that talent is because it's not coming the way that it used to come. And that students have a lot of different reasons for why they don't do the traditional path. It doesn't mean they weren't good enough. And I think we're starting to unlearn that as a society of like, "Oh, just because you don't have a college degree doesn't mean you can't do these things." It just means your path was a little bit different. 

 

Alex Edgar

I love that idea of having a different path, but that all paths are valid and that Gen Z has been serving as this disruptive force, I think, in education, in workforce, in culture, in a way that I really think has the opportunity to make really positive changes in all of those systems. But in a lot of those systems, there is one thing that I wanted to touch on that I know you have a lot of experience with, which is DEI. And we actively see an attack on DEI happening across the country right now. So how do we continue moving forward, especially as Gen Z is entering the workplace, to ensure that there's not this national backsliding on this important, incredibly necessary principle of DEI? 

 

Zoë Jenkins

Yeah, I think that's such an important question. I think for me, what I always come back to is intentionality. And I think that's what we were lacking when a lot of these promises were initially made. When people said, "Oh, I want to do diversity, equity, inclusion," there was a very specific kind of person that they wanted to uplift, and there were certain people who didn't quite fit that mold. I think within the student voice sphere, this is something that we see a lot where. 

I'll get reached out by companies and they're like, "Oh my gosh, we're really trying to uplift Black young women. This is what we want to do." And then I often turn back and I'm like, "Okay, but why did you reach out to me?" Are there other students who maybe have different kinds of disadvantages who you don't invite into this space because they don't talk the same way I do, they don't have a certain background that I do?" And it's not that my voice isn't important necessarily, but it's like, "Are you doing that deep outreach to figure out the students, the young people, marginalized people who typically don't get invited to speak publicly, and why are we not inviting them to speak publicly?" 

And so it's like, yes, we're doing really good on the racial and ethnic side of this diversity and inclusion that I think looks really great in pictures and it's really easy to advertise, but how are we doing when it comes to socioeconomic status? And I think that is causing a lot of the slide is that we're like, "Yes, diversity and inclusion, but we want these people to still fit into the mold of what is seen as professional, is seen as acceptable." And if we really want to do DEI I think in the truest way possible and we want to prioritize belonging for people who are different from us in a lot of different ways, there's a lot more structural change that has to happen than just recruiting more people who look a little bit different. 

 

Alex Edgar

Thank you so much for that answer Zoe. And I know you and I obviously are not yet in the workforce and already there's a new generation coming up behind us, Generation Alpha. I'd love to get your thoughts on Generation Alpha. Who are they shaping up to be? What are the challenges that they're going to face and how can we as Gen Z be readying the workplace and society at large for them? 

 

Zoë Jenkins

Yeah. The fact that there's a named generation after us scares me. I think I hold so much onto like, "Oh, I'm the youngest." And then I'm like, "There are all these children who think I'm old." I think we do have a pretty big responsibility to try to set things up for Gen Alpha because I think they have experienced some of the things we've experienced in just an entirely different way. Like while we were ending high school and maybe in college when the Covid pandemic hit, Gen Alpha was like in elementary school and middle school. And I remember babysitting this fourth grader in the height of the pandemic trying to coach him through online classes, and that has to be one of the hardest things I have ever done. But also it just showed me so clearly how like, this is a kid who's growing up online and during a key part in your social and emotional development, you're at home alone trying to learn how to round numbers through Zoom with your classmates who all don't have their camera on. 

And so how do we support this generation to build those kinds of connections that I think even Gen Z kind of struggles with, but we know we need to be just fulfilled in life beyond just the workplace? And I think there's a lot of that falls in the education system, but a lot of it falls in employers to be looking out for signs of this lacking of belonging and connections that it's not a personal thing. This is a societal thing that just impacted them at such a deeply important time in their development. And how we can empower them, I think, to take control of that and also to change the way we work because we can't just expect them to suddenly jump in two to three years of development and be ready in the same way that we were ready. We're going to have to adjust, I think, to their needs and their interests and the fulfillment that they need. And that's going to look different, I think, than even our generation. 

 

Alex Edgar 

I think that's a great way to end our conversation today, the idea of Generation Z, Gen Z, we are on our way, we're entering the workforce now. We are actively engaging in those systems, and Generation Alpha is right behind us. They're starting to move towards this space. I'm really looking towards our listeners, all those involved in workforce systems to really look at your institutions, your industries, and seeing how can we ensure that when Gen Z and Gen Alpha enter our workplace, that they have that feeling of inclusion and belonging in an intentional way to ensure that they're actively engaged in the work being done. But I just wanted to say a very, very massive thank you to Zoe for joining me on this special interview. It's been such a wonderful conversation. I'm so grateful you joined us today. 

 

Zoë Jenkins

Thank you so much, Alex, for the opportunity. Always love catching up with you. 

 

Alex Edgar

Same here. And thank you so much to Tameshia for sharing the microphone with me today. Once again, I'm Alex Edgar for the Horizons podcast. Tameshia? 

 

Tameshia Bridges Mansfield

Alex and Zoe, thanks for that insightful discussion. We look forward to seeing how you both continue to lead the way for Gen Z and for the rest of us. And thank you to our listeners for joining us for this episode of the Horizons podcast. Please let us know what you thought about today's conversation by sharing a comment wherever you find your podcast. And get ready for the next Horizons summit, July 22nd and 23rd in Washington, DC. Registration is open at horizons.jff.org. I look forward to the conversation next time. For now, I'm your host, Tameshia Bridges Mansfield. 

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